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Who was really evil?

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Of course, with all the dumbass damage I've done on this wiki (stop promoting, this is not accurate, stop fluffing why the **** you fluffing, you could've done this instead you dumbass why didn't you do it in the first place); at last there's a proper place to post all of my prior garbage.

And yes, cue ALL the incoming "why are you still doing this, we've asked you so many times to not contribute in this way go to something that has stubs and stick to attack data blah blah blah Lur Bu's Japanese named weapon lit. means Kokushi Musou etc etc etc".

Well, *sigh*.....I'm going to be driven nuts soon. But hey, you're not here to have a "pity party", you're here to give out red cards because I can't tread wikia's fine rules. Moving on though (I'm still legitimately frustrated so I can't say I'm truly trying to get pity; I still facepalm internally whenever I get your usual "stop this dumb crap" notices).

Again, moving on from that big tangent. The BIG thing I want to ask is: who were such huge bastards in the Three Kingdoms?

And this time, since it's a blog, I'll try to bring up the-archlich, AGAIN (did I ever know I was promoting him? Not like I wanted to say "this was this" out of space in the first place but whatever). Reason why I looked at his stuff was I sadly, didn't ever bothered to know about the Sanguozhi and other sources like that in the first place, and I'm not sure if I would ever be able to make of my honest opinion by looking through EVERY SINGLE PART of that damn thing..... Plus, I've been hearing some nasty stuff about Chen Shou (like how he's possibly a misogynist). Also, we're dumbasses (e.g. me) for wanting something as short as a vine, so why not the short version of events where you can read it while relating to it?

In this post, it sums it all up: http://the-archlich.tumblr.com/post/142023080482 Well, it's technically an "ask and I'll answer" thing. It brings up the 10 most evil people in the Three Kingdoms in his opinion, barring Dong Zhuo since it's no secret.

Note that this all applies to their HISTORICAL selves, and none of the bullshit I was (and possibly a few others) are lead to believe in the novel. Note that this mostly is quoted from the-archlich himself, but then again this crap has been through such scrutiny here and there (looking at you, Zhuge Liang).

  • 1. Sun Hao - Wu's last emperor and the worst figure of the Three Kingdoms. Exactly as bad as Dong Zhuo, but on a much wider scale and without any catharsis at the end of his story. Not only the worst monster of the Three Kingdoms, he’s probably one of the 10 most evil rulers in history.
    • I can already sorta tell why he doesn't have his page here on this wiki, since I must assume he's not even properly introduced in any of Koei's games yet. However, it would seem that he is indeed a contributor to the fall of Wu, so he might get a chance to be portrayed in the Jin Kingdom story. Then I read his article on wikipedia.....and wow. He was initially liked...but then his frequent executions happened....AND he was pardoned by Sima Yan? Damn son. Funny enough, he has the same given name as Huang Hao....coincidence much?
  • 2. Yuan Shao: At the height of his career, he allowed corrupt officials to do as they pleased, and he began to execute, imprison, or exile officers who disagreed with him. It was his deliberate massacre of over 2,000 civilians in 189 that puts him this high on the list, though.
    • I was quite surprised, especially in comparison to the novel and Koei's version that makes him out to be a mere arrogant dumbass who just lost to Cao Cao so hard at Guandu (EVEN the Koihime Musou portrayal is just as much as a fool who spams the noblewoman laugh 24/7). I've mainly read that on the-archlich's analysis of him, Yuan Shao started out as someone who was sorta picked on (during childhood?) but rose to his ranks to become the hero who combated Dong Zhuo during his reign. However, power seems to have gotten to him and he ended up as a corrupt monster (or so I've read/heard).
  • 3. Sun Jun - In addition to his role in the Crown Prince Affair, he exploited government authority for personal gain.
    • After just looking on wikipedia right away, good ol' Sun Ziyuan (nice same style name in similar reading to Sima Shi's btw) was the guy who worked alongside THE Sun Luban in dethroning Sun He. Then upon assassinating Zhuge Ke, he used all that power he gained for himself.
  • 4. Sun Luban - The one most responsible for the Crown Prince Affair. Not only did her actions result in numerous murders and lesser crimes, they undermined the stability of Wu and brought about a dark age from which it never really recovered.
    • Well, I guess she's also the no-brainer evil figure next to Dong Zhuo, but then again she's mainly way until the Jin Kingdom story. Thus, since Dong Zhuo came first it's no surprise people like me would put her second.
  • 5. Yuan Shu - it's impossible to say how many people died because of his greed and incompetence. In addition the political strife he caused and outright murders he ordered, the excess of his government and its exploitation of its people meant that thousands starved under his rule.
    • Everyone hates Yuan Shu for a reason, and it turns out I was a bit surprised his negative traits did a lot more damage than I thought historically speaking.
  • 6. Liu Bei - Committed treason against everyone he ever served (except Liu Biao), constantly betrayed his allies, raided Chengdu’s treasury, deliberately prolonged the war for his own profit, and murdered his son.
    • In terms murdering his son, he basically ordered Liu Feng to commit suicide so Liu Shan could inherit the throne uncontested. Aside from this, I was quite surprised when I heard how much bashing Liu Bei got from the-archlich (it makes the literal character reading of his name make MUCH more sense). Liu Bei of course, is one of those REALLY sugar-coated things in fiction nowadays, not to mention I heard from the-archlich once more, when he was stationed in Ru'nan he bothered to BECOME A BANDIT with Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. I've even read on other blogs that Liu Bei was just as treacherous as they say he was.
  • 7. Gongsun Zan - Enabled corrupt officials and literally killed people because he didn’t like the way they looked at him. He also wanted to commit genocide against the Wuhuan, and he may have murdered his family before taking his own life.
    • Again, this surprised me by A LOT. I felt that ever since I read that one moment where Zhang Fei saved his ass from Lur Bu at Hulao Gate, that he would end up being a total butt monkey; that proved to be true for his portrayal as Bailian/Pairen in Koihime Musou (she's cute with ze boots tho <////<;). HOWEVER, again, I was surprised to learn how much of a douche he historically was (so I heard from the-archlich).
  • 8. Tao Qian - Let bandits run free throughout Xu and employed corrupt officials. Perhaps worse, after taking in thousands of refugees he exploited them for personal gain.
    • Again, surprised. I guess Xu Province now that I think more about has been doomed from the start. I'm a little glad now that in Lu Bu Feng Xian's Lur Bu mod of Destiny of an Emperor playthrough, Tao Qian was killed by him.
  • 9. Li Jue - Usurped control of the government, abused the emperor’s authority for his own gain, and caused the deaths of thousands while he was at it.
    • Welp. I didn't expect this to be specific, but of course this was someone under Dong Zhuo we're talking about; of course he'd be evil.
  • 10. Sun Chen - A usurper who exploited the government for his own gain. He blatantly abused his power and was one of the worst tyrants of his age.
    • Aside from me just noticing that he not only disposed Sun Liang, but he was also a dictator with no accomplishments. Ouch.

Dishonorable Mentions (And plenty of others he's sure we might've forgot):

  • Sun Hong
  • He Yan
    • I've read about him in his analysis of Sima Shi, and adding his actual story behind everything in Koei's telling of the Jin story would've given Sima Ziyuan a lot more tragic depth. Basically, he used to be close, but that is until Cao Shuang came into power and started to abuse it. By proxy, He Yan was also fairly corrupt (but then again even he admits that Cao Fang's behavior was rather unjust and bound to have him deposed).
  • Zhai Rong
  • Chen Zhi
  • Huang Hao (AKA "Kou Kou" lol; dat on'yomi reading; either way he's no secret as well)
  • Guo Si (Again, one of Dong Zhuo's men; what do you expect?)
  • Gan Ning
    • This part REALLY surprised me. I remember his kitchen boy incident which in loose words; REALLY PISSED OFF Lur Ziming, but I have to admit I never expected him to remain such an infamous rogue even after being under Wu's service for a while (meanwhile other former types of people reformed themselves through such military service). Again, even though the-archlich states Gan Ning used to be one of his favorite characters (even I admit Gan Ning calling Lur Meng and old man makes no sense in terms of their actual ages historically; Gan Ning was 3 years older), he states that it still doesn't excuse his historical-self's actions, so it could be a big deal that might be taken with a grain of salt. Basically, Gan Ning killed royal families for the hell of it, wasted away silk and other stuff just so show off how much he could have, and never reformed his bastard habits during his service in Wu. However, I give massive props to Lur Ziming [Lur Meng] and Ling Gongji [Ling Tong] for not letting Gan Xingba's douchebaggery get in the way of their actual duties. It just puts massive shame to the Koihime Musou portrayal (Sichun), who ACTUALLY looks older than their Lur Meng (Yasha) just for the sake of matching their ages historically (Gan Ning again, was older than Lur Meng by three years).
  • Pan Zhang
    • I haven't heard much about Pan Zhang as opposed to him being the one who rode on Red Hare and used the Azure Dragon Weir Moon Blade as a spoil of war in the novel, but damn. I just read that while he had plenty of contributions, he used to be a gambler and would often go in debt. Not to mention he started to have a lot of wealthy stuff for himself (stolen from killed officials) and broke the law a few times, yet Sun Quan didn't bother to punish him for it (possibly due to either his contributions being very great, and/or Sun Quan started to turn very unreasonable in the later years; AKA the moment that lead to Lu Xun's disgraceful death).
  • Zhang Fei
    • Just like the-archlich says, Zhang Fei fans won't like the cold sad truth one bit. I knew he was a rough man who executed harshly like what Koei wiki has said, but I never knew he even resorted to being a bandit AND kidnapped Xiahou Yuan's niece (Xiahou Ji) at Ru'nan. Now that's just nuts.
  • Fa Zheng
    • It would seem that after looking at Koei Wiki's version of his historical info and the-archlich's analysis, it all has been traced down to Mr. Woman-Ignoring-Chen Shou's opinions of him. While he was a very great man of talent, it seems his own goals and morals were quite loose and made him not very well-liked by his colleagues. Not to mention the-archlich even states arrogant men like Zhuge Liang (UGH) and Guan Yu (oh boy) respected Fa Zheng's talents, since he was the sole reason Shu existed. However, his deed of settling personal grudges with old enemies (by murdering them all) was quite the thing that sealed the deal, especially if it was Liu Bei who allowed him to do so.
  • Ma Chao
    • Another surprising read. His father, while kind, was no different as well it seems. He used to outright serve under Dong Zhuo and Li Jue just for the sake of rebellion. Plus, in Ma Chao's case, I've stated what I've heard quite a few times: he frequently abandoned his family very often (especially letting Ma Teng get killed by Cao Cao), overestimated his own abilities (and as I've read/heard, Yan Xing seemingly beat the shit out of him to near-death in a duel), killed those who he just didn't like (even elderly women like Jiang Xu's mother) and had very shifty allegiances. However, it's also been pointed out in that this was Chen Shou's negative opinion on him, so while I have been very shattered at hearing Ma Chao being a big and evil bastard of his time, I'm not sure if Chen Shou's words are to be truly believed.
  • Han Sui
    • How many more must surprise me? When I first read about Han Sui, upon reaching the end of the-archlich's analysis of him he was quite the man; he was a respected general overshadowed by Ma Teng and Ma Chao in fiction, but he was a rebel, served Dong Zhuo and Li Jue as willingly as Ma Teng did, was brutal to his enemies and their families AND just like Ma Chao didn't give two shits about his own family as well. Wow.
  • Lü Bu (or as I write "Lü" to match the pinyin; Lur Bu)
    • Sadly for those who fear pursuing him, Lur Fengxian deserves to sorta have some heat on his tail. While I'm not sure if he's "really evil" as per the tumblr ask post, it's no excuse that Lur Bu had a lack of control over his officers (which resulted in the commanderies he took over being ravaged by his men and the like, and thus earned him some pretty nasty hate). But now that I think about it, he DID betray Ding Yuan (sorry man, you're a bit of a joke imo) and Dong Zhuo....
  • Shen Pei
  • Zhang Yan

Well, anyway, that's it for this dumb blog post that may be taken down for clueless promotion yet again. --SneaselSawashiro (talk) 20:13, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

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